2004-11-11 [Sunrose]: severely unvirginal persons?? who besides me?

2004-11-11 [RabidSphinx]: hahaha...this is funny...i will join, since i am in fact a virgin, and i am annoyed with the other wiki, but i am not quiting it...since it seems like such a bother do do so...

2004-11-12 [Analeyin]: This wiki was not meant in offense, but controlled rebellion (not really, but still). Sunrose, read the usernames of the first three members. The banner also defies the virtue of its latter members. Twelve-year-old speak doesn't help you much either...

2004-11-12 [Analeyin]: Now, there is a supporters' section...

2004-11-12 [~*~Tethryn~*~]: kewlies.. this is a good place and i like it better then the other one

2004-11-12 [Sunrose]: What does reading the usernames explain to me again? Like I speak that much netspeak??? Are you sure you know who does what on the other wiki? I think not. Defies the virtue??

2004-11-12 [Fanta Boi]: power freaks

2004-11-12 [Analeyin]: No, I follow the comments, and those I must say, do defend virtue a good deal. However, I still find it rather insulting that Virgin Pride makes such a mockery of virgins, even if it is all in good sport. It isn't against the members at all. If I'm a power freak, then so be it.

2004-11-13 [Sunrose]: Well if members moch themselves I can't see the harm in that: humor is also what makes the world go round a lot of times. I moch myself, what's such a big problem about that: I actually think it makes a person stronger and also shows that person is strong to be able to dare and mock oneselve..

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: While your arguements in many respects are true, it does not prohibit us from forming a somewhat cleaner version of the wiki. It does show a humbleness and strength to mock one's self, but it is also somewhat offensive depending on the way in which we wish to view the topic. The Virgin Pride wiki on ET, for example (like the rest of ET, I might add) is safe and cleancut. If I feel the need to convey that feeling in another environment, then I feel I should be allowed to. Apparently, others feel that way as well, whether they are a part of this wiki or not. (Drat, that wording sucks...)

2004-11-13 [Sunrose]: That was not my problem; the problem was the way you did it. You could also say you just wanted a more serious wiki, instead of insulting some of the people on the wiki by calling them unvirginal persons: as if you are better than them because you take life serious and everything involved. Besides the fact I see no reason why you should be proud of virginity as well as why you should be proud of not being a virgin! Pride should not be involved in sex. Many people who say they are proud of being a virgin are just people who can't get any and stating they are proud makes them feel better. People who aren't virgins state this so worldy because it makes them feel more important than others

2004-11-13 [Sunrose]: having had sex. It makes them feel better letting others know they had sex. That they are worth existing. Well wether or not you had sex, everyone has value and sex shouldn't make a difference.

2004-11-13 [Sunrose]: So seeing the previous: I do not root for either side: I couldn't care less if someone is a virgin or not: what does it matter really? The greatest gift you can give is NOT virginity: it's LOVE!

2004-11-13 [RabidSphinx]: I am *proud* to be a virgin. I hold myself higher than those that aren't. In today’s society, someone, by my age, is not *expected* to be a virgin. It used to be, it was *frowned upon* for a woman to marry and not be a virgin. Now it is *surprising* if she is! It makes me sick that sex doesn't mean you love the other person anymore and that you are committing your life to that other....That is why I am *proud* to be a virgin. I like to think I am stronger than those of my age that aren’t since most people’s excuse for losing theirs is “peer pressure” well, I was under that same pressure, for many years, and I was able to still say no, even though I lost “friends” over it…It makes me proud.

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: *bows before RaineDrop*

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: As for you, Sunrose, what exactly do you mean by that? I find it a right that I should feel offended when persons with nudity, BRIDGING PORN nudity I might add, and persons who pride themselves on the number of persons they've slept with/how 'active' they are, makes sport of virgins! In all technicality, I can call them unvirginal persons! Everyone has value, that I am not denying. What I am saying is that 'worldly' persons as you term them are NOT VIRGINS AND THEREFORE DO NOT BELONG ON A PAGE ABOUT VIRGIN PRIDE!

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: except as supporters! Taking pride in how many virgins one has 'taken care of' is offensive because that's the way I was brought up, and that is the way in which I formed my code of morality and understanding. The world is overpopulated as it is! *grumbles* I know today's culture prides rebellion from older ideas and all that jazz, but you cannot blame anyone for believing the older ways of thought.

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: I find it pitiful that anyone feels their ability/activity under the covers is the reason they exist, the reason they know their worth.

2004-11-13 [RabidSphinx]: *nods* i agree...relationships are now commonly based strongly on how well and how often the two have sex. what ever happened to enjoying your partner's company? waiting to have sex till marriage is a sign of dedication and trust. it means that you partner loves your enough to wait, sometimes years, to have sex. sex is a reward to your lifetime commitment to a single person. if everyone waited till marriage to have sex, there wouldn't be AIDS or STDs because there would be no way for the 2 virgins to have picked them up. the numbers a abortions would be a *lot* less because by the time you are married, you can *usually* care for a child, even if it is a surprise.

2004-11-13 [RabidSphinx]: Lets face it, if people today had sexual morals, the world would be a better place

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: Unfortunately, though, they don't. To the majority of the world (younger world, at least), Sex is a game. It is a competition. It is like a badge of honor. I must say it sickens me.

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: This 'ideal' not only spreads diseases, kills innocent babies, but could ruin the mother's life to points we'd rather not look into. High school drop out rates are too high as it is. With a baby on the hip, how can one be expected to study in peace? We are seeing this downward trend in the world today. It seems just when things were getting better, society decided to fall off of a cliff.

2004-11-13 [~*~Tethryn~*~]: I totally agree.. I look at my school right now and there are many girls who range from the ages of 15-19 who jsut have had babies in the last year. One of my friends... is having one in Jan and shes only 17. They feel that this could be a way for them to be happy by having a baby of their own to love them.

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: I believe if they feel so unloved they feel the need for a newborn at seventeen, they're taking the wrong approach. The baby does not know love when it is just born. It knows, hunger, cold, pain, and comfort. By being there, I suppose they would be a comfort, but when the girl is so young, more frustration than love will likely come out of it. We can all say that teens aren't known for their pacifism. Furthermore, many teenage mothers abandon their babies. I know a good number of people that were given up as children... and because their young mothers didn't want to deal with their crying anymore.

2004-11-13 [~*~Tethryn~*~]: I know that too... Me I can say the reason i wanted to have sex was b/f i didnt feel loved and i thought if i had sex the guy would love me... but when i realized that havingi t wouldnt change anything i decided that having sex wasnt my solution and I'm pretty much happy.

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: The thing is, so I've heard from several sources I consider reliable, when you sleep with a guy and prove you're easy, that makes them respect you less, regardless of what they may say. I still believe the seeds of good morals are still inside every heart. In many, they are shut up in a lead box, but they are there. Also, I believe there's a certain sort of... how do I describe it... mystery and surprise awaiting after they've proven they love you. REALLY love you, not use you. (And, if completely in love, as RaineDrop said, they can wait a few years).

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: If their love is true, they can wait for you forever.

2004-11-13 [~*~Tethryn~*~]: Well right now i have found the love of my life and sex isnt even an option for a topic of conversation. Its not something we want to jsut throw around for the heck of it b/c its a vow of committment. 

2004-11-13 [RabidSphinx]: my boyfriend wants me to sleep with him, because he and i both want a baby...and i'm afraid to say no...

2004-11-13 [~*~Tethryn~*~]: you should never be afraid...

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: I never said it was a vow of commitment. If they truly love you, they'll wait for you. They won't mention it.

2004-11-13 [RabidSphinx]: it isn't that he will leave me because he already has asked me to marry him, it that, i don't know, that he has had sex before and i haven't...he knows it, knows i'm afraid to, but i never told him no, and...

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: *sorry, slow connection, so my comments are a little out of place*

2004-11-13 [RabidSphinx]: i want to be with him, heart body and soul, but it's a BIG step to take...

2004-11-13 [1st Font]: So what is this wiki about then?

2004-11-13 [RabidSphinx]: um...about virgins i guess...

2004-11-13 [~*~Tethryn~*~]: i know you never said it but its what i believe it is

2004-11-13 [~*~Tethryn~*~]: it is a big step and the big question is.. Are you ready to take the big step. If you arent sure then you arent really ready..

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: The high and fluffy answer would be to talk to him about it. Let him know. Ask him. If he loves you, he wouldn't want your marriage to be just about having a child. It'd be about having you...

2004-11-13 [~*~Tethryn~*~]: thats right

2004-11-13 [RabidSphinx]: i want to talk to him, but how? he is, well, open about what he wants to do with me sexually, and i have to admit, i want to be with him, but i don't want to be just like every other girl in america...

2004-11-13 [~*~Tethryn~*~]: theres a difference between... wanting ot be with him and you being like every other girl in america

2004-11-13 [RabidSphinx]: i just, i don't like the idea of girl sleeping with their BFs and have stood against it for years, and i would feel like a hypocrite if i had sex with Elijah...i mean, i still think it's wrong for young girls to do it with boys they have been dating for a short time, but i am getting older now and i feel so strong for Eli, but i don't want to feel wrongly and do something i hate then i would just be a stupid hyporite and a fool

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: I'd still suggest waiting for the wedding bells...

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: What a mess you have on your hands... What do you think is a more liveable situation for you? Waiting/etc. or living with hypocrisy?

2004-11-13 [RabidSphinx]: i know...but when i go down to visit him, i don't think waiting would be possible the way he talks, and i sort'a agree with him...but i want more than lust, and he said he loved me after we knew each other online for a while, before he saw pictures of me, so that makes me believe that he still likes me for who i am...but still, i feel conflicted

2004-11-13 [Analeyin]: Difficult, difficult situation... I don't know what to tell you... *unrelated announcement:We have our first banner... It isn't the greatest, and it's a bit big, but I believe it'll suffice...*

2004-11-14 [Sunrose]: [RabidSphinx]: holding yourself higher because most women aren’t virgins these days and sex not involving love nor commitment: not every girl who had sex is a whore: some did love that person and committed. It’s judgmental to say you know why they made their choices.

2004-11-14 [Sunrose]: [Analeyin]: I haven’t posted any nude pictures nor have I told ANYONE how many people I slept with. So it’s weird you use that argument against ME, since I am the only person on Virgin Pride actually not being a virgin. So I am not allowed to discuss virginity on a wiki for virgins because I am not a virgin myself? I find that very conservative. Have I said anything about ‘how many virgins I have taken care off’?? You are using all kinds of arguments against me that don’t apply to any of the people on the other wiki.

2004-11-14 [Sunrose]: [RabidSphinx]: sex is not a reward in my eyes. That is the same kind of importance you cling on sex as non-virgins do, when you just said that they are wrong thinking sex is so important. Aids is also caused by kids not having the right education on sex and aids also gets transmitted by rape and adultery, not just by young kids.

2004-11-14 [Sunrose]: [Analeyin]: drop out rates at school because of sex is also because kids don’t get the right education on sex. Also [RabidSphinx] said she wants a baby really bad and she is a virgin and not even that old (and now I read she doesn’t know whether or not she wants sex, but I did discuss with her whether or not having a baby is smart). If you just make a guy wait because you don’t want him to think that you’re easy: I find that very gullible and judgmental of men too..

2004-11-14 [RabidSphinx]: I happen to be a very judgmental person when it comes to certain things. One of my good friends was just in *love* and gave her virginity to her boyfriend Nick. Then a week after that he dumped her. He had lied to her, made her believe he loved her, just to get her to sleep with him. Once he had gotten what he wanted from her he left. I don't blame her as much as I hate him, but it was still her choice. I know that happens to girls, it's actually all too common. Sex in a young people’s relationships tends to end them faster than “cement their true feelings for each other” like they seem to think it will.

2004-11-14 [Sunrose]: I didn't say she should have sex with him after a really short time. making him wait for years doesn't make sense though either. If it takes you years to trust him enough that he really really loves you maybe you should ask yourself if you really love him: you feel you can't even trust him, so maybe you make him wait so many years because you are not sure of your own love for him.

2004-11-14 [RabidSphinx]: or because i have seen LOTS of girls after 1-2 years of dating *know* they are in love, sleep with their other and then get dumped...time doesn't equal love, a wedding ring does...making them wait shows that they want you for who you are, not for your pussy…if that is all they want then why stick it out for so long when they could get it from some other lose girl that will spread her legs to anyone she dates…sex is a comitment, it can be fun, but for someone that is dedicated to their other, not just because you want some kicks with your "sweetheart"

2004-11-14 [Analeyin]: [Sunrose] I was not using my arguements against YOU. The nonvirgin Virgin Pride members IN GENERAL and the world IN GENERAL. You take offense too easily.

2004-11-14 [Analeyin]: *applauds RaineDrop*

2004-11-14 [1st Font]: OK let us get one think straight! [Analeyin] Who on earth gives you the right to put a label on any of the members at the Virgin pride wiki! WHO? You have no right what so ever to imply that they are nonvirgins because how the heck do you know!?  In general I dont think any of you should be soo shallow in your ways as to want to go about displaying your feelings whilst cutting down those of others! You and your wiki are probably the most unethical and morally incorrect wiki I have led eyes on! AND WHY? because the others that I have seen have had a joke aside of them, while some members do consider them to be truthful, this wiki just cuts the crap! Sort it out.

2004-11-14 [Sunrose]: [Analeyin]: like I said a MILLION times, I am the ONLY non-virgin on the damn wiki! I know this for SURE!!!! I already said this before, so I can't understand why it doesn't get through to you! ([Sexy Man Beast] and [Pussycat] did put their names up, but they are not participating members). I take offense in this wiki and what is said here because it is directed against and started because of Virgin Pride, so it is logical for me to ask you why you did this and respond to your judgemental answer.

2004-11-14 [RabidSphinx]: i like the other wiki, i just didn't like the banner and wanted one i could put in my house, that’s all...i'm still a member of both virgin wiki...this one i just got to comment more on the virgin issue than the other...i never attacked anyone from the other wiki, that would be pointless in my opinion...sorry if anything i said offended anyone (-_-,)...i just voiced an opinion, nothing more, and nothing that you are not supposed to do here on elfpack, and i said nothing against any specific person... *hangs head sadly* i don't like being yelled at...(-_-,)

2004-11-14 [Analeyin]: *shuts herself up in the closet* Can we just drop this anti- Virigin Pride issue? Things get much more interesting that way. Please, if you don't like it, let it be. You have other hater associations, though this isn't one of them. Can you flame those all the time? No! Why, because it gets on people's nerves! Gah! Humbug to all of you.

2004-11-14 [Analeyin]: BTW, there's another banner... more flowers.

2004-11-15 [Sunrose]: Hater associations?? You act like I hate people who take pride in being a virgin. This is not so, I rarely hate people. That doesn't mean I can't get in heated discussions. But you changed the text and it's much better now, so thanks! :)

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: NO! I mean there are hater associations (not neccessarily about virgins, etc) like the Punk Haters Assoc., the Bush Haters Assoc., etc. I know you can get into heated discussions, I met you on ET's Philosophy, remember? Yes, I felt it was time to change and end the friction... or at least decrease it.

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: So, I hope we can leave our really rocky beginning behind us...

2004-11-15 [RabidSphinx]: i just like that there are banners...banners rock my socks...

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: hehe. Two banners, both based on the flowers and "the brides wore white". I'd be happy if anyone else made pretty banners... *nudges everyone else* Hint, hint!

2004-11-15 [RabidSphinx]: i would...if i had photoshop...

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: Hmmm... Most if not all of the Anti-Suicide banners (at least those unique to EP) are yours.........

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: I've made *counts* five banners today. That makes a total of ... seven... for both EP and ET. I'm a novice w/out much experience at this sort of thing...

2004-11-15 [RabidSphinx]: i just use Paint...add crappy text to images...i have no way of making banners look pretty with glowy letters or fadded images...*tear drop...*

2004-11-15 [RabidSphinx]: Oh, and i just wanted to say that i hate my mother. My elderly neighbor today had asked my mother if I could help her out tomorrow after school with some stuff and my mother agreed, which I don’t mind. Helping people makes me feel good. But while on the topic of me, my neighbor had said that i was looking "so skinny" and my mother laughed and said that i wasn't that skinny at all, and that i was actually pretty fat, and that i weighed more than all my friends, but that i would be happy to know she had thought i was thin at least...

2004-11-15 [RabidSphinx]: she told me just now exactly what she had said, smiling the whole time as she called me fat, then laughed. laughed because the neighbor thought i was looking nice. *cries* she is always calling me fat...telling me that i should lose weight. And it hurts. it hurts so bad because i try so hard...she is always comparing me to other girls, pointing out how i have a fat ass, or no boobs, or that they look soooo much better in something than i would… i can't go shopping with her for clothing anymore because all she does is say the clothing looked better on the "other dummy" *cries her eyes out*

2004-11-15 [~*~Tethryn~*~]: those are great banners

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: *pats Rainedrop* My dad's annoying that way too, but I don't really care. You shouldn't take what she says to heart. I'm sure you've heard this (technically read this) a million+ times, but DON'T LISTEN! Anorexic is NOT a word describing beauty! *shakes head* That's another thing I can add to my "I hate society because..." list.

2004-11-15 [Whim]: Does it count as virgin pride if you’re a former virgin?

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: Mmmm... Supporter. Definately a supporter.

2004-11-15 [Whim]: Well, what about born again virgins? Do they count?

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: What about WHAT?!

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: Hold on. I have to log out.....

2004-11-15 [Whim]: those people who like have sex before marriage, but then they find god and go through some sort of cleansing ritual so that they’re virgins in the eys of god or some BS like that.

2004-11-15 [RabidSphinx]: lol...that's sad...i know repentant virgins...girls that lost it, *really* wish they hadn't, and then wait till marriage after that...

2004-11-15 [Whim]: so...you're saying the born again virgins don't count?

2004-11-15 [RabidSphinx]: i don't know...not my wiki...but the whole idea of being born again is so crazy...lol...i don't know though...

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: No, they don't count. I find that to be supreme BS, so be a supporter. If you murder someone, then you pray for forgiveness, I still think you're going to Hell.

2004-11-15 [Whim]: hmmm...but that kind of goes against personal beliefs. Maybe there should be a third virgin pride wiki for the outcasts of virgin society.

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: Sure. Go make one... I can't make you change your beliefs, and I won't try to.

2004-11-15 [Whim]: hehe...but I can’t help but wonder if a group of virgin outcasts will be somehow offended by the third wiki and make a fourth. Could the cycle continue until elfpack is completely covered in virgin wikis?

2004-11-15 [RabidSphinx]: whoot!actually...that would suck...

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: AAAh that would be the EP Apocalypse!

2004-11-15 [Whim]: no, it’ll be great! It’ll be just like christianity where there’s no realy unity, just a bunch of different sects that get made just because they don’t agree on how many time jesus took a dump after the last supper.

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: *sighs*

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: Disunity. Humbug

2004-11-15 [Whim]: yeah, conflict amongst people is great like that. I mean, people innocently start making these little groups, but then it somehow seperates people into sinners and saints and the sinners get offended cause the saints refuse to give them any credit for anything good.

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: *shakes heads* But without arguement, neither the saints nor the sinners could defend themselves.

2004-11-15 [Whim]: but the point is, why did there have to be such seperation to begin with? Why does the world have to divide itself into sinners and saints when they could just as easily accept those little faults of eachother and live a little more peacefully?

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: Because humanity is stubborn by nature. Nobody loves Everybody. Any slight variation (well, NOT so slight variation) causes uproar because something is out of order. Humans like order. Humans like symmetry. Everything needs to be exactly how you see it or else. That's why.

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: Eventually, there are faults in this dogma of stone and there is acceptance and tolerance. We know which one will win in the end and that just makes life even sadder... -er.

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: I have a drama audition to go to really soon, so I'll have to log off...

2004-11-15 [Whim]: well, of course, but to seperate into different groups, or even cultures just so you can deny anyone who doesn’t agree with you? Isn’t that a bit extreme?

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: It happens all the time, whether they be smaller divisions like cliques, etc. or larger ones like race, locale, and so on.

2004-11-15 [Analeyin]: Extreme is relative... *now you can see why I spend so much time on Philosophy wikis*

2004-11-15 [Whim]: it’s never relative. It’s always quite extreme for such things to happen. It’s just become so second nature to humanity to keep itself so divided that it doesn’t really seem like a big thing, but really no matter how or why it happens, it’s never really any less extreme than when the south tride to break away from the north in during the American Civil War.

2004-11-16 [Analeyin]: No. There is a difference. The action in theory is relatively similar. The difference from extreme to not extreme had to do with proportion and number. If you had a room with four people, two wore white and two wore black (out of moral reasons) would you consider that extreme? No. You wouldn't. It's only when the scale of the matter increases.

2004-11-16 [Analeyin]: That events/splits are considered extreme.

2004-11-16 [Whim]: It's still as extreme as any other situation. The main difference is that it's stupider...hehe.

2004-11-16 [Analeyin]: *shrugs* consider it the way you will, but you've now heard my view on the matter. In theory, yes, I've agreed that the action itself is a little extreme. In practice, it is only extreme at certain times and under certain conditions.

2004-11-20 [Analeyin]: Yay! I got a "Hoorah!"

2004-11-20 [RabidSphinx]: can i have a cupcake?

2004-11-20 [Allen Barrec]: Hi all. I though I'd create some banners for us. I put three up. Heheh.

2004-11-20 [RabidSphinx]: yay! *dances on her way to check them out*

2004-11-20 [Analeyin]: Yep, I saw them, they're very pretty!

2004-11-20 [Allen Barrec]: ^_^U

2004-11-21 [Analeyin]: :)... *belatedly hands [RabidSphinx] a cupcake*

2004-11-21 [RabidSphinx]: yay! cupcake! *scarfs it down*...*a few minutes later*....*teardrop* i miss my little cupcake...*teardrop*

2004-11-21 [Analeyin]: O.o I feel your loss... I think.

2004-11-21 [RabidSphinx]: that was me as Gir...i love gir..."i love the little tacos...i love them goooood,"

2004-11-21 [Analeyin]: Hehe...

2004-11-21 [You deserve each tear that falls.]: hi guyz...

2004-11-21 [Allen Barrec]: o.O I don't know you!!!   Heheh, sorry, couldn't help myself

2004-11-21 [RabidSphinx]: i know you...

2004-11-21 [Analeyin]: I don't know you... So therefore you don't know me... either